[The below is in response to an article by William Saletan, whose "alternative" pro-choice columns over at Slate get some well deserved grief from various sources. This one is a reply to an disreputable abortion doctor in the news, leading to the usual focus on extremes. I think LGM replies well here too, one of a few recent posts on the topic. Here's a bit from me.]
But, let's remember what is at stake here. "Some women." Saletan notes that >1.5% of all abortions involve viable fetuses,and this includes some borderline cases where survival is unlikely. Some subset of these involve threats to the woman's health/life or severely disabled fetuses. "Late term" also means different things; "partial birth abortions" are sometimes said to be "late" abortions, even though a significant number occur before viability.
So, we are talking a fraction of a percent left over. Citing data on "second trimester" abortions [which can be 10 weeks earlier] are only of limited value in determining numbers here. Also, he cites a doctor who said the "health" threat was exaggerated. But, what does "health" mean? The Supreme Court defined the term broadly in a ruling before Roe v. Wade to avoid vagueness problems. I don't know how the physician defined it but think it reasonable to assume his definition is arguably too narrow.* And, who decides if it is? If you can't trust a woman and her doctor?
One blog replied to the piece thusly:
I might say even then that the line drawing is so hard that we should trust the women and her doctor to determine the question, but realize absolutism isn't the likely result. I will say that the Roe guideline works for me. But, rarely, do we have the liberty to worry about making the call.
[Update: A look at the Grand Jury report of the acts that led to the question being raised reaffirms all of this. All that is charged makes the illegal late term abortions an also ran, especially given the "need" for said abortions seemed not be a concern, even though a credible doctor would take that into consideration before performing such dangerous procedures.]
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* Doe v. Bolton noted:
But we'll still be left with some women who, for no medical reason, have run out the clock, even to the point of viability. Should their abortion requests be granted anyway? I've answered your questions. Now it's your turn to answer mine.Viability was used as the line as a type of compromise -- there is no perfect line and constitutional line drawing rarely is absolutist, though some think it should be. If that's the law in PA, it's the law and should be followed. The Supreme Court allows a second physician requirement to be used to care about the viable fetus' needs. Planned Parenthood v. Ashcroft.
But, let's remember what is at stake here. "Some women." Saletan notes that >1.5% of all abortions involve viable fetuses,and this includes some borderline cases where survival is unlikely. Some subset of these involve threats to the woman's health/life or severely disabled fetuses. "Late term" also means different things; "partial birth abortions" are sometimes said to be "late" abortions, even though a significant number occur before viability.
So, we are talking a fraction of a percent left over. Citing data on "second trimester" abortions [which can be 10 weeks earlier] are only of limited value in determining numbers here. Also, he cites a doctor who said the "health" threat was exaggerated. But, what does "health" mean? The Supreme Court defined the term broadly in a ruling before Roe v. Wade to avoid vagueness problems. I don't know how the physician defined it but think it reasonable to assume his definition is arguably too narrow.* And, who decides if it is? If you can't trust a woman and her doctor?
One blog replied to the piece thusly:
We’re debating the rights of some group of theoretical women who want to have post-viability abortions, and who have no medical reason to do so, and who were perfectly able to access abortion earlier in their pregnancies. Why? Seriously, why are we doing that? There are not significant numbers of these women. Abortions after 24 weeks are already highly restricted, and can’t just be done on a whim. This is not really a significant point in the abortion debates, theoretically or realistically. What does impact thousands and thousands of women is the fact that abortions are hard to get because anti-choicers have erected a bunch of barriers, using many of the same arguments that Saletan focuses on in this piece; the fact that even birth control and decent sex education isn’t the easiest to come by in the United States because of those same anti-choice activists who aren’t just against abortion but who oppose anything that helps to give women control over their own bodies and lives; and the fact that abortion is demonized as evil or selfish murderous instead of taken for what it is: A fairly common part of women’s reproductive experiences.Why is this question being raised? Theoretical questions are tossed out all the time on this and other issues, while they don't actually apply to nearly all the matters at hand. When safe abortions [cf. this very case] are provided without threats even to first trimester abortions, when the question of non-health related third trimester abortions is actually the issue at hand, come back to me.
I might say even then that the line drawing is so hard that we should trust the women and her doctor to determine the question, but realize absolutism isn't the likely result. I will say that the Roe guideline works for me. But, rarely, do we have the liberty to worry about making the call.
[Update: A look at the Grand Jury report of the acts that led to the question being raised reaffirms all of this. All that is charged makes the illegal late term abortions an also ran, especially given the "need" for said abortions seemed not be a concern, even though a credible doctor would take that into consideration before performing such dangerous procedures.]
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* Doe v. Bolton noted:
We agree with the District Court, 319 F.Supp. at 1058, that the medical judgment may be exercised in the light of all factors --physical, emotional, psychological, familial, and the woman's age -- relevant to the wellbeing of the patient. All these factors may relate to health. This allows the attending physician the room he needs to make his best medical judgment. And it is room that operates for the benefit, not the disadvantage, of the pregnant woman.I'm not sure, especially given that post-viable abortions are riskier than childbirth, just what abortions that occur at this stage do not meet that test. I have a thought that the doctor cited by Saletan defined "health" in a different way. But, who knows. Are we to make violators of vague guidelines criminals?