I discussed a "sister wives" legal case here, noting the difference between not providing civil recognition and making it a crime even without an attempt to fraudulently obtain that (bigamy). Polygamy is an ancient practice that continues to be legally practice in many cultures (e.g., Islam recognizes it), which over the years led to some legal recognition even in the U.S. And, of course, it is a usual bugaboo when same sex marriage is involved. More directly, I have addressed Utah's law that criminalizes "purported" marriages, in effect those declare themselves married to more than one spouse for religious or other reasons.
Love Times Three (by four Dargers -- three wives and a husband with Brooke Adams, a journalist) is not really about that though the laws clearly are of immediate concern to them. A few Amazon reviewers wanted them to justify themselves more, such as talking about the so-called "excessive male" problem. On that front, it is more like this review of an article. We do not get a complete discussion of why polygamy (polgyny) is required under their "independent fundamentalist Mormon" (I sometimes wonder if the term is appropriate, as compared to the more official Church of Latter Day Saints, but it seems to be here) faith or an answer to all the problems some have with it. It is more an account, the four taking chances speaking with a chapter that does the same for the oldest of each mom, of their lives.
On that front, it was a good book. A few Amazon reviewers were bored by it, but it is not like their lives are free from conflict. The third wife (the twin to another) came in a decade or so later than the other two after struggling as the sister wife of a much older man. One chapter is about the death of a baby and the concern when an official investigation was put forth. One wife had a bad time with one of her births, leading to conflict. And so on. The overall typical nature -- more or less -- of much of their lives is part of the theme of the book. But, it is not like everything is hunky-dory, no conflict or crisis. The bunch's overall down to earth style (the book link has some video; listen also here) appeals.
No, this isn't a "tell all" book with all the juicy bits.* Each came from polygamous backgrounds, so it is far from surprising that they continued that lifestyle (a word they use). One wife notes that she doesn't expect legal recognition of the marriages, just for it not to be deemed criminal. As to the reason why they chose the life, putting aside their background, family comes out to be the major reason. Each wife appreciates a big family and having such a big support system (the conflicts that arise are touched upon -- again, the book does not simply sugarcoat things). Another reason is hinted at -- the belief that spirits are waiting to be born. A big family, which polygamy of this sort furthers (one woman, multiple men, is rare in world cultures, though it de facto occurs in certain situations, such as when men are away at war or in prison) furthers this. But, again, like many religious and cultural beliefs, sometimes there is no big reveal. It is what they or we are familiar with and wish to continue.
Various reasons are provided to oppose polygamy though if we respect freedom of choice on the matter, criminalization appears to be a dubiously overbroad means of addressing it. And, though eight states directly criminalize the practice (see first link), only blatant cases tend to be addressed by the authorities. The fact some specific close-knit group supports underage marriage doesn't mean that is the way of all. Child abuse in the Roman Catholic Church underlines that sort of thing is not somehow "polygamous" in nature. If there is some sort of welfare fraud because "single" moms actually are being supported by the father, it is largely a result of criminalization. Conservative views about women or faith are not unique to this group and the moms here seem fairly liberal on various subjects. They even recognized, if not accepting it, the right of same sex couples to have unions like theirs.
The practice also is said to lead to inequality. The women do choose this path, like some choose other religious or moral paths with conservative aspects that might limit their discretion in ways I oppose. The idea -- suggested by some -- that it isn't really consensual raises red flags. How do we know if such and such religious belief is not really "consensual" then? I think the Roman Catholic faith has various very misguided beliefs as do many who actively take part. Are those who follow them, including on birth control issues, not really consensually doing so if driven by religious faith? The stance seems selective on that front. And, freedom of conscience is a special value that deserves more.
The three wives here seem quite happy in their choices and each are pretty independent people, more so than many monogamous wives probably. The system as a whole has some feminist support because of the support system involved, plus the realization that a women should have choices. Still, there is a problem with a system where one man marries three women. There is some inequality there though the women here in no way are "ruled over" by Joe Darger as such. If it works for them, okay, but I can see people having some concern. And, it makes some sense not to provide full civil recognition, in part since our system of marriage is set up as (per Griswold v. Connecticut) as a "bilateral loyalty." Various secular reasons, including involving decision-making, makes that reasonable. Sex classification is more problematic on that front.
The other concern is the children. We are talking over twenty here. Again, it seems they are doing fine. And, three moms is great on that front in various ways. But, again, one dad. Me, I would think it more reasonable if there were less children overall. You know, like ten. Still, not like I have any standing on family rules or anything -- I'm not part of some model family or anything. And, big families (REAL BIG) have thrived over the years. And, monogamous marriages have large families (Scalia has nine) while others have many children out of wedlock, various parents involved, often with one or the other not having much of a role.
I will end with the "excess men" issue, which is not addressed in the book. The concern seems more likely to occur in close-knit communities where there is limited resources, here marriage possibilities. The Dargers are independents, who do not live in such a community. As with Islam, polygamy is only allowed if each partner can handle it, financially and otherwise. This as well as personal choice leads only some fundamentalist Mormons (the same is the case with Muslims) to choose this path. In a closed community, this would mean choices would have to be made and there is some evidence of abuses. That is, expelling "excess" males, even as teenagers, or use of underage females.
But, it is throwing out the baby with the bathwater to suggest polygamy -- again, a time-old practice (I have never heard, e.g., the abuses arising in nations that allow it, particularly the idea such cultures expel young men to allow others to have polygamous marriages) -- overall is the problem as compared to misuse. Alcohol use leads to abuse. The numbers of fatalities on the road underline the point. Is alcohol to be banned? I think not and nor should polygamy, even if many do not think it is right for them. And, criminalization as with misuse of drugs and other issues, would make stopping abuses harder both because of decreased oversight and a smaller pool, the current practice only encouraging secrecy and closed societies.
The Dargers have made a choice that seems to work for them; they should be able to make it without being deemed criminals, even if the reader might think it is a wrong one.
---
* The makers of the HBO series Big Love, started by two gay guys who are open to alternate lifestyles, referenced a magazine story about the Dargers as partial inspiration. The book notes that it is not simply a carbon copy though, various bits not their life choices. The show at one point shows the husband getting worn out at his middle age from having to have sex with each wife. He eventually gets some pills to help.
I do find that a curious issue, one the book doesn't really address. Each wife has a couple days of intimacy with the husband, but marriage isn't quite that scheduled, is it? There is some flexibility for special occasions and such, but that seems a tad artificial though some reference to a husband away for business except for a couple days might be raised. Are sex toys used? The book is again not really that intimate about things.
Love Times Three (by four Dargers -- three wives and a husband with Brooke Adams, a journalist) is not really about that though the laws clearly are of immediate concern to them. A few Amazon reviewers wanted them to justify themselves more, such as talking about the so-called "excessive male" problem. On that front, it is more like this review of an article. We do not get a complete discussion of why polygamy (polgyny) is required under their "independent fundamentalist Mormon" (I sometimes wonder if the term is appropriate, as compared to the more official Church of Latter Day Saints, but it seems to be here) faith or an answer to all the problems some have with it. It is more an account, the four taking chances speaking with a chapter that does the same for the oldest of each mom, of their lives.
On that front, it was a good book. A few Amazon reviewers were bored by it, but it is not like their lives are free from conflict. The third wife (the twin to another) came in a decade or so later than the other two after struggling as the sister wife of a much older man. One chapter is about the death of a baby and the concern when an official investigation was put forth. One wife had a bad time with one of her births, leading to conflict. And so on. The overall typical nature -- more or less -- of much of their lives is part of the theme of the book. But, it is not like everything is hunky-dory, no conflict or crisis. The bunch's overall down to earth style (the book link has some video; listen also here) appeals.
No, this isn't a "tell all" book with all the juicy bits.* Each came from polygamous backgrounds, so it is far from surprising that they continued that lifestyle (a word they use). One wife notes that she doesn't expect legal recognition of the marriages, just for it not to be deemed criminal. As to the reason why they chose the life, putting aside their background, family comes out to be the major reason. Each wife appreciates a big family and having such a big support system (the conflicts that arise are touched upon -- again, the book does not simply sugarcoat things). Another reason is hinted at -- the belief that spirits are waiting to be born. A big family, which polygamy of this sort furthers (one woman, multiple men, is rare in world cultures, though it de facto occurs in certain situations, such as when men are away at war or in prison) furthers this. But, again, like many religious and cultural beliefs, sometimes there is no big reveal. It is what they or we are familiar with and wish to continue.
Various reasons are provided to oppose polygamy though if we respect freedom of choice on the matter, criminalization appears to be a dubiously overbroad means of addressing it. And, though eight states directly criminalize the practice (see first link), only blatant cases tend to be addressed by the authorities. The fact some specific close-knit group supports underage marriage doesn't mean that is the way of all. Child abuse in the Roman Catholic Church underlines that sort of thing is not somehow "polygamous" in nature. If there is some sort of welfare fraud because "single" moms actually are being supported by the father, it is largely a result of criminalization. Conservative views about women or faith are not unique to this group and the moms here seem fairly liberal on various subjects. They even recognized, if not accepting it, the right of same sex couples to have unions like theirs.
The practice also is said to lead to inequality. The women do choose this path, like some choose other religious or moral paths with conservative aspects that might limit their discretion in ways I oppose. The idea -- suggested by some -- that it isn't really consensual raises red flags. How do we know if such and such religious belief is not really "consensual" then? I think the Roman Catholic faith has various very misguided beliefs as do many who actively take part. Are those who follow them, including on birth control issues, not really consensually doing so if driven by religious faith? The stance seems selective on that front. And, freedom of conscience is a special value that deserves more.
The three wives here seem quite happy in their choices and each are pretty independent people, more so than many monogamous wives probably. The system as a whole has some feminist support because of the support system involved, plus the realization that a women should have choices. Still, there is a problem with a system where one man marries three women. There is some inequality there though the women here in no way are "ruled over" by Joe Darger as such. If it works for them, okay, but I can see people having some concern. And, it makes some sense not to provide full civil recognition, in part since our system of marriage is set up as (per Griswold v. Connecticut) as a "bilateral loyalty." Various secular reasons, including involving decision-making, makes that reasonable. Sex classification is more problematic on that front.
The other concern is the children. We are talking over twenty here. Again, it seems they are doing fine. And, three moms is great on that front in various ways. But, again, one dad. Me, I would think it more reasonable if there were less children overall. You know, like ten. Still, not like I have any standing on family rules or anything -- I'm not part of some model family or anything. And, big families (REAL BIG) have thrived over the years. And, monogamous marriages have large families (Scalia has nine) while others have many children out of wedlock, various parents involved, often with one or the other not having much of a role.
I will end with the "excess men" issue, which is not addressed in the book. The concern seems more likely to occur in close-knit communities where there is limited resources, here marriage possibilities. The Dargers are independents, who do not live in such a community. As with Islam, polygamy is only allowed if each partner can handle it, financially and otherwise. This as well as personal choice leads only some fundamentalist Mormons (the same is the case with Muslims) to choose this path. In a closed community, this would mean choices would have to be made and there is some evidence of abuses. That is, expelling "excess" males, even as teenagers, or use of underage females.
But, it is throwing out the baby with the bathwater to suggest polygamy -- again, a time-old practice (I have never heard, e.g., the abuses arising in nations that allow it, particularly the idea such cultures expel young men to allow others to have polygamous marriages) -- overall is the problem as compared to misuse. Alcohol use leads to abuse. The numbers of fatalities on the road underline the point. Is alcohol to be banned? I think not and nor should polygamy, even if many do not think it is right for them. And, criminalization as with misuse of drugs and other issues, would make stopping abuses harder both because of decreased oversight and a smaller pool, the current practice only encouraging secrecy and closed societies.
The Dargers have made a choice that seems to work for them; they should be able to make it without being deemed criminals, even if the reader might think it is a wrong one.
---
* The makers of the HBO series Big Love, started by two gay guys who are open to alternate lifestyles, referenced a magazine story about the Dargers as partial inspiration. The book notes that it is not simply a carbon copy though, various bits not their life choices. The show at one point shows the husband getting worn out at his middle age from having to have sex with each wife. He eventually gets some pills to help.
I do find that a curious issue, one the book doesn't really address. Each wife has a couple days of intimacy with the husband, but marriage isn't quite that scheduled, is it? There is some flexibility for special occasions and such, but that seems a tad artificial though some reference to a husband away for business except for a couple days might be raised. Are sex toys used? The book is again not really that intimate about things.